Showing posts with label stand your ground. Show all posts
Showing posts with label stand your ground. Show all posts

Wednesday, April 11, 2012

Here's What Will Happen To George Zimmerman Next In Florida

Revised 04/12/2012


We know George Zimmerman has been charged with second degree murder.  Here’s what will happen next on the State Court level. There are now certain formalities that must take place as required by the US and Florida Constitutions. He turned himself in at the Jacksonville jail.d by a lawyer.

He will be arraigned within a short period of time where a Judge or Magistrate will tell him what the charges are, the possible penalties, and set a bond. When setting a bond the official looks at the gravity of the crime, community connections, employment, criminal history, flight risk, substance abuse, and the like. It is also a positive if a lawyer comes in and explains how these factors apply to his client. It is a very good factor for the judge to consider in his bond hearing that he voluntarily turned himself in. 

Where Zimmerman “disappeared” to would have a bearing on any bond If he left the state. Although he could have left the state. He was not charged with anything earlier. But, any prosecutor would say, "He left the state once, he will do it again if he is released on bond."  


If bond is granted, it can be personal recognizance, meaning that Zimmerman promises to attend all future court hearings or face a big monetary payment and probable immediate incarceration. Not likely here.  It can be a cash/surety bond, meaning that he has to get a bondsman to post the bond or the defendant must post the entire bond amount with the Court. This is possible., In some states, there is a cash/or percentage bond set. This means that he can put up a percentage of the bond with the court and if he doesn’t show up later, he forfeits the entire bond amount.

Next, before everyone gets excited about a trial, since he will be charged directly by the Prosecutor with an "Information,” and not charged by indictment by a Grand Jury, a Preliminary Examination must be held by the Court first.

The Prosecutor must prove there's probable cause for him to go to trial. After the Prosecutor presents evidence and witnesses, Zimmerman's lawyer can cross examine the witnesses and challenge credibility of evidence and witnesses. The Prosecutor only has to prove that there is enough evidence to warrant a trial. Zimmerman can challenge all charges and ask for them to be dismissed or lowered in severity.

Don't expect Zimmerman to testify. Do not expect his attorneys to present evidence because this just invites a trial because if the Prosecutor says one thing and the Defendant presents  evidence that says another, it then becomes a jury question almost immediately. Its all about the Prosecutor's evidence.

This is NOT a trial. This hearing does not prove guilt or innocence like a trial. Zimmerman's attorney's job is to challenge state's evidence and try to convince the Judge that the evidence presented by the Prosecutor is not sufficient to move the matter to trial as charged. It's  also a chance to see what evidence there is against Zimmerman.

At the conclusion of the hearing, the Judge decides it the evidence fits the elements of the charged crime, and goes through each part of the definition of the charged crime. He could send it to trial as charged. Or, he can dismiss or lower charges.

The Prosecutor would refuse to talk to him, as she did, because he was apparently still represented by attorneys when he contacted her. Her talking to a represented person would cost her job and she would lose her law license. That's a terminal violation of rules governing lawyers. This isn't TV, or CS, or any of the Law and Order shows, where there's no reality. This is the real deal. This is real life.


Before everyone gets excited about a trial, since he will be charged directly by the Prosecutor with an "Information, a Preliminary Examination must be held by the Court first.

The Prosecutor must prove there's probable cause for him to go to trial. After the Prosecutor presents evidence and witnesses, Zimmerman's lawyer can cross examine the witnesses and challenge credibility of evidence and witnesses. The Prosecutor only has to prove that there is enough evidence to warrant a trial. Zimmerman can challenge all charges and ask for them to be dismissed or lowered in severity.

Don't expect Zimmerman to testify. Do not expect his attorneys to present evidence because this just invites a trial because if the Prosecutor says one thing and the Defendant presents  evidence that says another, it then becomes a jury question almost immediately. Its all about the Prosecutor's evidence.

This is NOT a trial. This hearing does not prove guilt or innocence like a trial. Zimmerman's attorney's job is to challenge state's evidence and try to convince the Judge that the evidence presented by the Prosecutor is not sufficient to move the matter to trial as charged. It's also a chance to see what evidence there is against Zimmerman.

At the conclusion of the hearing, the Judge decides it the evidence fits the elements of the charged crime, and goes through each part of the definition of the charged crime. He could send it to trial as charged. Or, he can dismiss or lower charges.

.When this is set for trial, if it is, there will certainly be a Change of venue motion to get the trial out of Sanford to somewhere else in Florida. But, the practical result is that Zimmerman has replaced Casey Anthony as the most hated person in America.

Zimmerman will probably be bound over for trial. Many experienced lawyers have never prevailed at a Preliminary examination because the burden of proff for the Prosecutor is so low to send a case on to trial.


And, it’s not over unless or until her is found guilty of every charge beyond a reasonable doubt. But, there’s also the issue with Eric Holder; but, that’s the subject for another day.

The Prosecutor has refused to talk to Zimmerman directly because he was apparently still represented by attorneys when he contacted her. Her talking to a represented person would cost her job and she would lose her law license. That's a terminal violation of rules governing lawyers. This isn't TV, or CS, or any of the Law and Order shows, where there's no reality. This is the real deal. This is real life

Tuesday, March 27, 2012

Stand Your Ground Law Is Not What We Are Being Told - Its A Pack Of Lies

What does Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law actually say self defense with deadly force really is? Stand your ground laws are being spun by politicians and anti gun rights groups to say that they create a license to kill. This assertion is not the truth anywhere in the US. They also say they should be eliminated. They say that  the laws should expressly say that the person using deadly force can’t be the aggressor. It already does that in Florida. Just read the actual aw below.

Those attacking the law as a license to kill have not read the law or are parroting those who are saying that is. It’s obvious that those who attack the law have not read it. It’s even more obvious that those making the claim against the law could care less whether what their claim is true or not. But, it makes good campaign rhetoric and fundraising for anti gun rights causes.

The Florida law is quite clear on the legal use of deadly use of force in self defense. It is concise, being just three short paragraphs long. It explicitly states when the law can be used and when it is no defense.

The only justification for deadly self defense there is that there must be a "reasonable belief" that the person using deadly force believes that there will be imminent death or great bodily harm if the other person is not stopped. If that “reasonable belief” is not present, then deadly force is expressly prohibited. And, if that is the case, then a crime has occurred if deadly force is used. The person can be charged with any relevant crime up to murder.

What other additions could be made to the law to make that fact more clear?

That “reasonable belief” is a rebuttable presumption. If the Prosecutor has evidence that the belief wasn’t present, it can be rebutted at the Courthouse.

This is the actual Florida “Stand Your Ground Law.”
Please see TadConfused Comment below for more clarification.

You don't have to be a lawyer to understand it.

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

Here's the thrust of 776.013, a separate section

"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

Stand Your Ground and Churches stops criminals there too.

Churches in many states are “Gun Free” zones that are promoted by various anti gun rights groups across the country. But, in 2007, a madman who killed several people at a Colorado church was stopped by a non paid gun carrying security guard church member where her carry was allowed. The Colorado pastor credited her for saving many lives.

Anti gun rights proponents say that no one should be able to carry a firearm, concealed or not.  But, now another armed congregant, this time at a North Carolina church with a concealed handgun permit and with his handgun in the church, may have prevented mass slaughter.

A man who had previously been ranting at the church previously returned armed the second time. He was spotted after the initial visit in the parking lot while carrying a shotgun. The congregants had locked the door after seeing him heading toward the church.

State law there prohibits concealed permit holders from carrying inside a church there unless given permission by church officials. He got that permission after the man made his first visit to the church. The concealed permit holder held off on drawing his sidearm until the intruder kicked open the locked door. At that point, he drew his gun and pointed it at the shotgun wielding man. He was distracted enough for the pastor to grab the shotgun and disarm him, allowing churchgoers to subdue the man.

It’s alleged that the man’s sister gave him the shotgun and drove him to church. Both have been charged with various crimes.

And, here’s a Florida Stand Your ground case from this week.

In Florida, where stand your ground is being politicized, a grocery store employee killed gun carrying 16 year old Quintavius Moore during his failed robbery attempt. Police are investigating all the circumstances, but the female store employee likely will face no charges. This teenager will undoubtedly be counted in the anti gun statistics of “Children” killed by guns.